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TOPIC: Electric Cars

Electric Cars 14 May 2018 08:41 #21

  • Peter Kirk
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Oh Dear, I saw the word "categorically" mentioned. So it is true :) I wonder how many Prius cars will still be running in 2040?

My friends travel to Cornwall regularly so any car will need to make that trip non-stop otherwise the UK holiday trade will suffer badly. I still believe vested interest stifled progress for many decades and we will suffer for this along with contra-rotating government policy.

One oddity I did come across is peoples perception of electricity. I heard someone say that if they got stuck in traffic jams they will lose battery power whilst not even moving! Whilst this may be true of ancillary equipment, air con, lights, wipers etc, I worry that the education system is failing if people believe motors have to run all the time like a petrol car.
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Electric Cars 14 May 2018 09:00 #22

  • WILLIAMARNOLD
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airfields man wrote: A lot of un-employed people, those who work in the garage's, car mechanic's, vehicle engine manufacturer's exhaust-pipe - makers / fitters.... Battery aircraft with charge-up stations five miles high.

Not in Eastern Europe where labour is cheaper and all production will be moved to with perhaps just research left in Britain.
Long ago and far away

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Electric Cars 14 May 2018 16:28 #23

  • Harboda77
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I asked similar questions to the ones posted on this forum and was lead to believe the following ( Don't know so have to accept what I was told until proven other wise )

The Toyota Hybrid system is the most complicated ( Reflected in the high price ) and does permit limited running until the on board computer determines that to continue will damage the expensive battery pack ( replacement quoted at £3k to £5k ) and is limited to drive battery only.

Lights, wipers & heaters worked off of the engine start battery.

Agree with Peter's politician position on ' categorically ' as they believe what ever they say until they change their minds.

Doubt there will be many current model Prius's still on the road in 2040 as they will be have been strategically recycled.

Understand that the new propulsion batteries under development will be good for 50 to 100 miles but will not be commercially available until 2030.

Long trips to Kernow will be taken on the hydrogen powered train and for a small sum they will recharge your propulsion battery on route.

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Electric Cars 15 May 2018 16:07 #24

  • Paul F
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Harboda77 wrote: Long trips to Kernow will be taken on the hydrogen powered train and for a small sum they will recharge your propulsion battery on route.


Ah, so there is enough spare capacity on the current UK rail network to allow them to run added 'car transporter services' between major cities/destinations during peak holiday periods and bank holiday weekends is there? Err, no, probably not based on how chokka the A303 /A30 gets... So, the only half-viable option for long distance holiday trips will be to drive your personal e-vehicle to the local rail station (assuming it's too far to walk there with heavy bags etc), board the hydrogen powered train(s) to a 'hub' near your destination, then use a hired e-vehicle locally while you enjoy your holiday, before reversing the process to get back home.

So, looks like there will be a boom in e-vehicle hire schemes in popular tourist destinations - and quite a few long-term parked e-vehicles at 'home' stations in holiday periods. Or I guess we could all use e-taxis to get form home to the station etc.

Of course, the simplest option would be for all the car manufcaturers to agree a standard battery pack format, so that all e-cars used the same ones, and 'filling up' would be a case of driving into a battery station where they would quickly swap out your 'flat battery' for a recharged one, sending you on your way with a full 'cell' while the cell you left behind goes on charge for later use by someone else to use later...... but thats far too logical. It also overlooks the size and weight of a car-sized battery pack, which will require suitable handling and storage equipment at the battery stations. After all, if mobile phone companies cannot agree a standard charger/plug combination, then what chance of the automotive industry agreeing the size/shape/ capacity/connectors etc for a 'ISO car-battery pack'. And just imagine the sorts of current a battery station would need to draw to recharge the tens/hundreds/thousands of cells it swaps out every day, bearing in mind most cars only need to fill up with petrol/diesel every 500 or so miles, but batteries look likely to need charging/swapping every 250 - 300 miles, so twice as often as we all currently 'refuel'.

I suspect the most likely way forward is likely to be a compromise - the 'ERV' ('Extended Range Vehicle') format where a car is powered by a battery pack, but carries a small combustion engine powered generator to 'top up' and extend the range of the battery between charging stops.

But that still means there will be a high demand for electricity overnight, and a desire for car owners to have access to a driveway, garage or kerb-side charging point wherever they park thewir vehicle for long periods. Can you imagine the chaos that widespread installation of kerbside charging points will bring - it will be like the current 'fibre optic' cabling works going on in my home town, with pavements under constant attack from pickaxes and shovels (sorry, no petrol- or diesel-powered compressors allowed, so no means of powering pneumatic drills or angle grinder/slot cutters ;-)....)

Still, one advantage of drawing all that current to recharge all our cars overnight will be that the power cables will get nice and warm, helping to heat our houses, and/or helping to keep the pavements ice-free ...ha ha ha. Or maybe the hot cables will just replace fossil fuel emissions as a caase of global warming/climate change etc????
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Electric Cars 11 Jul 2019 17:57 #25

  • Peter Kirk
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With a whole day of traffic jams a Dartford Crossing again, due to accidents occurring after a previous one had just been cleared, it re-enforces the problem of air-con running on an a battery (the small one) that is not being re-charged. A major flaw in these parts. Also, related to local traffic issues, perhaps they should supply male/female pee tubes as I gather a lot of people suffer problems after more than 4 hours in stationary traffic and some even dial 999!

Another problem is fire in electric cars as you can't use water to put it out as it is too dangerous. Or is that another urban myth spread by petrol sniffers?

With the ERV concept would the required petrol engine be much smaller? If so by how much and would just doing this make a significant change?

What are the plans for HGV's as they don't skimp on pollutants and in daytime seem to outnumber cars. Also vans as well as they seem to be very nippy these days frequently shooting past us at speed even though we are doing 70mph.

And another initiative (always a bad sign when that word is used) was to put speed limiters in all new cars. However people will just hold on to their old cars or find a way around it plus all foreign vehicles won't have the same restrictions. HGV's definitley need some sort of anti overturn gizmo as there is at least one a day in our area, three in one day a few months ago.

Endex
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Electric Cars 11 Jul 2019 18:24 #26

  • mbriscoe
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Here in the Highlands, it is not unknown for a road closure because of an "incident" to mean a hundred mile diversion. That could be a big problem late in the day if someone had been planning to recharge late in the journey. I heard someone on the radio last week, they had been to Cornwall in a battery car and when they reached their destination they found the charge point was out of action and no other one nearby.

Despite the hype, the number of battery cars sold is stil very small and most seem to be the small ones which probably often means the people still have a proper petrol or diesel car.

I asked recently, has anyone ever seen a government minister or other politiician travelling somewhere in a battery car?
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Electric Cars 11 Jul 2019 18:43 #27

  • Alex Brown
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A hydrogen infrastructure with effective storage facilities is what’s required in the long term.
Hydrogen vehicles are already in production but they’re very high price, and there are almost no facilities for refuelling at the moment.

In terms of the supply of sufficient electricity and the demand on the grid, the future of sufficient generation capacity has been suggested as small, “portable” nuclear reactors generators similar to the type used in submarines...
Yes, I'm back(ish).

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Electric Cars 11 Jul 2019 19:48 #28

  • mbriscoe
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Electric is easier because you just need to upgrade the present distribution infrastructure and share it. Hydrogen needs a completely new infrastructure.

Electric is also easier to have a hybrid that can charge itself, important away from main urban areas and for many essential users.

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Electric Cars 12 Jul 2019 10:34 #29

  • canberra
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If the country is going to go ahead with the policy of "no new build petrol or diesel cars" after 2040 then they have got to massively increase the amount of power stations. But how ill those power stations be powered? If we dont build any new coal ones, despite sitting on 500 years worth of coal then the only real option is nuclear power. The green lobby dont like nuclear power, but it doesnt produce any CO2.

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Electric Cars 12 Jul 2019 11:27 #30

  • Peter Kirk
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I always thought nuclear was the greenest form of energy but the lead times are just too great. All the old power stations in our area have been demolished and no new ones being built. The problem seems to be the nuclear waste rather than the power station itself and one suggestion was to fire it out into space but this was challenged by those who didn't want to clutter space with our nuclear waste. However I believe space is bigger than Wembley Stadium so it might not be so bad. Firing into the sun would be another option but that might require an expensive guidance system.

I suspect there will be developments in solar power that enable the cars skin to generate power but that will not be in my lifetime. Pity you can't use CO2 for power.

Maybe I should write patents for my ideas :)
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